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	<title>Comments on: Denial of the Fall II</title>
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		<title>By: Cor Jesu Sacratissimum » An Interlude on Evil, the New Age and Dialogue &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://corjesusacratissimum.org/2009/11/denial-of-the-fall-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1615</link>
		<dc:creator>Cor Jesu Sacratissimum » An Interlude on Evil, the New Age and Dialogue &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Kim´s weblog, concerning the Denial of the Fall. (That dialogue started here and then continued here). I felt real value there in the comments left by Aaron and Edwin and am grateful indeed for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kim´s weblog, concerning the Denial of the Fall. (That dialogue started here and then continued here). I felt real value there in the comments left by Aaron and Edwin and am grateful indeed for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://corjesusacratissimum.org/2009/11/denial-of-the-fall-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1613</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corjesusacratissimum.org/?p=1118#comment-1613</guid>
		<description>I am going to jump in here.

Kim and I very much appreciate this comment Edwin. And all your comments, as well as Aaron&#039;s. They have all been filled with valuable insight and we are very grateful to have them ENRICHING this web project. Thank you so much again, Aaron, Edwin.

Now I am not sure to what degree it has been indicated here, but due to an eye problem, Kim&#039;s capacities for internet interaction are more limited than my own ...

I think she will want to say more in time. Although I understand she also wants to take her weblog to other, non-New Age territory that she finds more rich and meaningful to speak of. Often she would rather be talking of the beauty and joy she finds in the Catholic Tradition, than the New Age ...

In the meantime, I found thoughts almost writing themselves, in response to you, Edwin, which I hope will shortly go up at my own weblog. Perhaps even later today.

I will just say this: they are very much honouring I hope, of what you have been saying about the need for &lt;em&gt;dialogue&lt;/em&gt;.

At the same time, they try to grapple with your reflection  regarding &lt;em&gt;evil&lt;/em&gt; contained in this:

&quot;Seeing the pervasiveness of New Age ideology and how it really holds people back from authentic spiritual relationships that can only be found in the great Traditions I’ve begun to wonder if indeed there is something evil about it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am going to jump in here.</p>
<p>Kim and I very much appreciate this comment Edwin. And all your comments, as well as Aaron&#8217;s. They have all been filled with valuable insight and we are very grateful to have them ENRICHING this web project. Thank you so much again, Aaron, Edwin.</p>
<p>Now I am not sure to what degree it has been indicated here, but due to an eye problem, Kim&#8217;s capacities for internet interaction are more limited than my own &#8230;</p>
<p>I think she will want to say more in time. Although I understand she also wants to take her weblog to other, non-New Age territory that she finds more rich and meaningful to speak of. Often she would rather be talking of the beauty and joy she finds in the Catholic Tradition, than the New Age &#8230;</p>
<p>In the meantime, I found thoughts almost writing themselves, in response to you, Edwin, which I hope will shortly go up at my own weblog. Perhaps even later today.</p>
<p>I will just say this: they are very much honouring I hope, of what you have been saying about the need for <em>dialogue</em>.</p>
<p>At the same time, they try to grapple with your reflection  regarding <em>evil</em> contained in this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Seeing the pervasiveness of New Age ideology and how it really holds people back from authentic spiritual relationships that can only be found in the great Traditions I’ve begun to wonder if indeed there is something evil about it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Edwin Shendelman</title>
		<link>http://corjesusacratissimum.org/2009/11/denial-of-the-fall-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>Edwin Shendelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corjesusacratissimum.org/?p=1118#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>Indeed, I have been re-thinking my openness to the New Age (in my way of dialogue, not belief).   The worldview of Christianity (or indeed any Biblically-based religion) seems so radically different.   I, too, because of my line of work frequently encounter New Age types.   A recent encounter illustrates your point well, I think.   A woman who I&#039;ve known for several years who has a lot of what could be called &quot;new age&quot; beliefs was in conversation with me.   She&#039;s not entirely hostile to Christianity being of Catholic background.   Over the years I&#039;ve tried to expose her some deeper aspects of Christian teaching.   She doesn&#039;t turn them away but the hold of New Age beliefs are so strong.   I mentioned a Christian speaker, Vassula Ryden to her and said what impressed me so much was her emphasis on the need to repent to receive the Holy Spirit the first time I heard her speak.  My friend was almost shocked and said very New Age &quot;why emphasize repentance if you can just stay conscious all the time?&quot;   I kind of replied &quot;because we do not stay conscious, but fall.&quot;   Moreover, repentance has endless depths and subtleties that cannot be glibly passed-off by saying something about staying conscious.   

On another occasion a woman walked in where I work.   She is a long-time customer and very into New Age practices which she sometimes attempts to share.   She started some interaction with me saying &quot;now I visualize white light for healing, but so I don&#039;t take on any of your negativity I visualize yellow light and cut myself off from you.&quot;   I watched this display somewhat amused because its presumptiousness.   When she said the last part I said &quot;aren&#039;t we one in one body the Body of Christ.?   And why do you want to be protect yourself from negativity instead of being like Christ who takes on pain and suffering of the world?&quot;

But this reflects a big religious-spiritual divide in our culture.   Not only the fall but sin has been removed from public discourse.   We are embarrased by these concepts because they symbolize &quot;repression.&quot;   But this is sad because the effects of repentance, contrition and confession are healing and restoring when they are followed by some sense of absolution (formal or informal).   Repentance should lead to authentic wholeness, wholeness based on a restored relationship to God and Man.

Seeing the pervasiveness of New Age ideology and how it really holds people back from authentic spiritual relationships that can only be found in the great Traditions I&#039;ve begun to wonder if indeed there is something evil about it.  It could be said to offer a counterfeit spirituality.   New Age types tend to be very sensitive spiritually, this sensitivity can serve them well in exploring traditional spirituality such as found in the Catholic Church.   This is my point about an esotericism grounded in a great religion like Christianity.   

Denial of the fall and sin certainly reflects an attempt to be spiritually self-sufficient.   But it is an illusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, I have been re-thinking my openness to the New Age (in my way of dialogue, not belief).   The worldview of Christianity (or indeed any Biblically-based religion) seems so radically different.   I, too, because of my line of work frequently encounter New Age types.   A recent encounter illustrates your point well, I think.   A woman who I&#8217;ve known for several years who has a lot of what could be called &#8220;new age&#8221; beliefs was in conversation with me.   She&#8217;s not entirely hostile to Christianity being of Catholic background.   Over the years I&#8217;ve tried to expose her some deeper aspects of Christian teaching.   She doesn&#8217;t turn them away but the hold of New Age beliefs are so strong.   I mentioned a Christian speaker, Vassula Ryden to her and said what impressed me so much was her emphasis on the need to repent to receive the Holy Spirit the first time I heard her speak.  My friend was almost shocked and said very New Age &#8220;why emphasize repentance if you can just stay conscious all the time?&#8221;   I kind of replied &#8220;because we do not stay conscious, but fall.&#8221;   Moreover, repentance has endless depths and subtleties that cannot be glibly passed-off by saying something about staying conscious.   </p>
<p>On another occasion a woman walked in where I work.   She is a long-time customer and very into New Age practices which she sometimes attempts to share.   She started some interaction with me saying &#8220;now I visualize white light for healing, but so I don&#8217;t take on any of your negativity I visualize yellow light and cut myself off from you.&#8221;   I watched this display somewhat amused because its presumptiousness.   When she said the last part I said &#8220;aren&#8217;t we one in one body the Body of Christ.?   And why do you want to be protect yourself from negativity instead of being like Christ who takes on pain and suffering of the world?&#8221;</p>
<p>But this reflects a big religious-spiritual divide in our culture.   Not only the fall but sin has been removed from public discourse.   We are embarrased by these concepts because they symbolize &#8220;repression.&#8221;   But this is sad because the effects of repentance, contrition and confession are healing and restoring when they are followed by some sense of absolution (formal or informal).   Repentance should lead to authentic wholeness, wholeness based on a restored relationship to God and Man.</p>
<p>Seeing the pervasiveness of New Age ideology and how it really holds people back from authentic spiritual relationships that can only be found in the great Traditions I&#8217;ve begun to wonder if indeed there is something evil about it.  It could be said to offer a counterfeit spirituality.   New Age types tend to be very sensitive spiritually, this sensitivity can serve them well in exploring traditional spirituality such as found in the Catholic Church.   This is my point about an esotericism grounded in a great religion like Christianity.   </p>
<p>Denial of the fall and sin certainly reflects an attempt to be spiritually self-sufficient.   But it is an illusion.</p>
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